appearance on sunday, to be determined. >> i would come to tears if that happens. it's an emotional, amazing story. >> although the weekends showdowns have teams going head to head, hamlin is one player everyone can get behind. >> what does number three stand? for >> number three stands for strength, courage, resilience, and hopefully with a game coming up again in cincinnati, number three stands for a win. >> people buffalo have suffered tremendous losses over the past year from the horrific mass shooting in a supermarket to once in a lifetime deadly winter storm. so after all that, many across the country are rallying behind buffalo, the city of good neighbors, this weekend. on that note, i wish you a good night. i'm alicia menendez. you can catch me every saturday, sunday, american voices, starting eight, 6 pm eastern. from all our colleagues across our networks at and we see news, thank you for staying up late. staying up late.

>> one of the biggest new stories of the, year of the century, with the january 6th attack on our capital, on the congressional investigation that followed there. we're ten public hearings in which the committee presented damning evidence showing that former president trump not only riled up the crowd, but then sat back and watched as a violent crowd tried to steal an election it was dramatic. and it was reveler tory. and it was hugely compelling. but we now know, thanks to polling conducted by monmouth university, that those january 6th hearings did not shift public opinion at all. about the same number of people would call it a riot. about the same number of people would call it legitimate protest. in every way, in the monmouth poll, the members were basically the same, before and after the january 6th hearings. now there are a lot of reasons why that might be the case. but a huge one -- a reason that cannot be ignored -- is this one. fox news did not cover the hearings. every other major network did. fox news ignored the january

6th committee hearings entirely. and not only did they ignore those hearings, but they actively pumped out content like this. >> if it was not an insurrection, then what was it? >> special operations uses the military deception tactic of a false flag abroad against the enemies in america. a false flag is any time you want to frame another group so that you can then take action against that group. it is my opinion that false flags have happened in this country, one of which may have been january 6th. >> fox literally produced a three-part documentary special, essentially painting the attack on the capitol as a false flag operation by the left, despite no actual evidence that that was the case. is it surprising, then, that so many millions of americans still don't believe that president trump was directly responsible for an insurrection? and then there is this. one of the other biggest news

stories this century, the covid-19 pandemic. we now know, quantifiably, that more republicans have died from covid than democrats. according to the pew research center, the covid death rate in all counties biden won weighs 258 people per 100,000. in counties that trump won, it was 326 people per 100,000. obviously, there are a lot of factors, like qanon and social media, and general distrust of the government. but this certainly did not help. >> hydroxychloroquine -- >> if you've never heard of hydroxychloroquine before we mentioned it -- >> i believe our focus on this drug has led directly to fda emergency approval, which may save many lives, tucker. >> chloroquine? talk to me. >> we are talking about hydroxychloroquine. >> hydroxychloroquine -- >> hydroxychloroquine -- >> hydroxychloroquine -- >> hydroxychloroquine, of course, does not treat covid-19. if you have a horse with worms

that's definitely what you want. but it is definitely not recommended for covid. fox news has been lying in ways that materially shaped our political reality for years. 76% of republicans believe there is an invasion taking place at our southern border. only 5% of republicans view climate change as a top issue facing our country. and maybe most importantly, for the future of our democracy, 61% of republicans still believe that biden did not legitimately when the 2020 election. 61%. >> -- our dominion came under heavy fire after allegations that their machines caused thousands of votes in one michigan county to be switched from donald trump to joe biden. >> -- they have adopted a position of willful blindness to this massive corruption across the country. the smartmatic software is in the dna of every vote

tabulating company software and system. >> yeah. it is more than just a willful blindness. this is people trying to blind us to what is going on. >> and the president's lawyers alleging that american votes in a presidential election are actually counted in a foreign country. these are serious allegations! but the media has no interest in any of this. but you and i do. >> you and i do. media matters counted-- fox news in the two weeks after the 2020 election was decided. once claiming that the election was stolen. and in that quarter, fox news's parent company reported more than four billion dollars in revenue. their ceo, loughlin murdoch, said at the time, fox news experienced record highs in december. 774 false statements about a

stolen election? great for business. so, how do we, as a society, fixes? how do we stop lies from infecting our political discourse, when lying is quite literally profitable? for that, i think we should look to the recent history of another one of our nation's most prolific and serial liars. >> sandy hook, it has got inside job written all over it. >> sandy hook is a synthetic, completely fake, with actors, -- in my view, manufactured. all i know is, the official story of sandy hook has more holes in than swiss cheese. >> for a decade, the far-right conspiracy theorists slash media personality alex jones has been saying that the sandy hook massacre did not actually happen. 26 people died in that connecticut school shooting in 2012. 20 of them were first graders. jones's lies or ridiculous. they were outlandish. they were hurtful. but he had a platform. and people believed him. and those people made the lives of those sandy hook parents, parents who had already lost

their children in a tragedy -- those people, who listened to alex jones, made the sandy hook parents lives an absolute hell. so, the parents sued. and this fall, in two defamation in damages suits, those parents won more than a billion dollars in damages from mr. jones. it is not a silver bullet. it may not be enough to take jones's media empire off the air. but it will certainly hurt. and it might make alex jones pause before he spins another web of very dangerous deception. now, today, fox news chairman rupert murdoch was questioned under oath in a 1. 6 billion dollar defamation case. the lawsuit is between a voting machine company called dominion and fox news. dominion alleges that fox knowingly lied, pushing a conspiracy theory that dominion 's perfectly fine voting machines were somehow flipping votes from trump to biden. and the key word here is, knowingly. dominion has to prove that, not

only was fox news lying, but that fox news knew it was lying. and on that front, even before rupert murdoch's deposition today, it sort of seems like dominion may have fox dead to rights. let's watch that sean hannity clip one more time. >> dominion came under heavy fire after allegations that their machines caused thousands of votes in one michigan county to be switched from donald trump to joe biden. >> that is what fox news host sean hannity was saying on the very popular national television show after the election. here is what sean hannity said about the dominion voting machine conspiracy theory in his deposition, under oath, as part of this lawsuit. quote, i did not believe it for one second. the new york times reported that, back in december, the lawyer for dominion said that not a single fox witness so far had produced anything supporting the various false claims about dominion that were uttered repeatedly on the network. the lawyer continued, many of the highest ranking fox feeble,

including tucker carlson and the executive who oversees primetime news. many of the highest ranking fox people have admitted under oath that they never believed the dominion lies. all those depositions are still under seal. both sides in that case -- fox and dominion -- have requested to skip a trial entirely and just have the judge decide based on the facts they have already presented. so, we might never see those depositions. but there is -- there remains -- a very real possibility here that fox news could finally be paying a lot for its lies. joining us now are jeremy peters, new york times media reporter, and an msnbc contributor, and david plouffe, former white house senior adviser under president obama. thank you guys both for being here with me as we try to unpack what i think has been one of the most dangerous forces in american politics, the rise and rise of fox news. jeremy, where does this lawsuit stand?

just from the shawn hannity quote that he is saying, boldly, i did not believe those lies? how does the dominion case stand, as you see it? >> it is one of the strongest defamation lawsuits that first amendment scholars will tell you has ever been compiled against a major media organization. it is an extraordinary case. because, as you laid out perfectly well, fox is an extraordinarily powerful entity. it's a cultural force as well as a political force, as well as a media force. and it is an identity to the people who watch it. and so, to have them potentially on the hook for lying to their audience, which has been fairly well documented, but not yet tried in a court of law, is -- this is so far along, alex, that we have never seen a case get this far against a major media company in a very, very long time. >> and this is -- the fact that rupert murdoch himself is sitting for a

deposition is meaningful, it would seem. it seems like there is a case to be made that he was calling the shots here, that he knew these lies were going to be broadcast, and indeed, he wanted them to be. >> it's so meaningful that, typically, you would see companies like fox settling these cases before the chairman 's ever deposed. the fact that he sat for two days of depositions tells you how far along this case is, and what kind of evidence that dominion has amassed against fox. to give you an idea of how serious it is, sean hannity has been back for two depositions. the first one was not enough. dominion -- uncovered more evidence of his possible knowing that they were spreading falsehoods on the air. janine pirro also has been back for a second deposition. suzanne scott, the ceo of fox news, was also called back for a second deposition. but ultimately, that didn't happen.

so, over the course of this case, dominion has uncovered more and more text messages and emails showing that people at fox knew what they were putting on the air probably was not true but did so anyway. and that is the kind of evidence that a jury will look at and ultimately decide if they should pay 1. 6 billion dollars. >> david, from a political perspective, as someone who knows well what it is like to be in a presidential campaign, and what work goes into being in a white house, and how important information is in this landscape, what is the meaning of fox news to someone who works in democratic politics? >> well, alex, i'm not sure there is anything more dangerous or devastating to american democracy then the fight against climate change -- fox news over the last couple of years. in fact, rupert murdoch has rain terror and devastation on three continents. so, it's an enormously

important -- it's not just who wins or loses the election cycle. over a course of decades now, fox and rupert murdoch, here in the united states, and in australia and the uk, have really done tremendous damage. i do think there has already been an effect -- 2022 election, which i think, by any reasonable measure, was a disaster, for republicans, even though they narrowly won the house. you did not see the same -- other than kari lake, and i think fox was careful about how they covered that -- you did not see the same playbook that you saw in'20. and i think, in part, it's because the lawyers are concerned about these. cases and i think there was a brush back. -- ultimately, they have to pay big damages here, this could be an important part of securing democracy. because without fox -- and of course, fox is like the pied piper. the sinclair stations or the online outlets, they all follow, right? so, if fox is not calling the play that we are going to challenge the election and say it was stolen, then i think there is less oxygen.

so this could not be more important to, i think, the really still -- question of whether we are going to remain a democracy. >> to follow on that, david, i think a lot of people would say, it's not just fox. it's not all late at fox's doorstep. that's absolutely accurate. there's the internet. they're spin-off conservative media networks that are loosely based in fact, if based in fact at all. but the very reality is that fox is still seen -- mainstream news outlet. it is on in airports. it is on in sports ports. it is on in hotels. and that is very different than one america news network and it's other related spinoffs. that's very different from even the alex jones hour of whatever you want to call it. and i think, when you were in the white house, when you are trying to get a message across, getting fox news to carry your news, your information, is critical to reaching a part of the country, is it not? >> there's no question, alex,

like you, i have studied this very carefully. fox has its original audience. it has obviously got even a bigger audience when people share that content across their social media networks. but fox is the coach. so, when fox latches onto a storyline, to a narrative, that trickles down. so, whether it's oan or breitbart or the sinclair stations or talk radio, they are going to follow. so, when fox says, this is what we are going to do, gang, and that is what they do. so, it's an entire ecosystem of disinformation that they control. and we have really seen nothing like that in america, certainly, in terms of its import. and those numbers you showed were really important, which is, they have not declined that much, which i guess you would take as a positive in terms of people's reaction to january 6th -- but there's no doubt the fox effect has sort of kept a ceiling on that, unfortunately. because you'd like to see those numbers creeping up to 70 or 80% in terms of people correctly talking about what january 6th was.

so you are absolutely right. you can't just look at fox. they are at the top of the pyramid and they basically -- all the sewage flows down from them and it gets picked up by other outlets. >> jeremy, you were nodding your head and agreement when david was talking about a more cautious approach on fox the 2020 elections and election denialism. -- do you think this lawsuit is having a chilling effect, -- otherwise uncensored spouting of lies? >> let's not forget where this whole episode started. fox actually did the right thing and told its audience the truth on election night in 2020. >> very true. >> which is that joe biden won arizona. that truth, however, it was incredibly inconvenient for foxes profitability. their ratings fell off a cliff. and in order to sustain those readings, what dominion is arguing, and what we presume they have been uncovered in the discovery process of this lawsuit -- is that many fox host and executive said we need to shift the storyline here and talk about fraud. because that is what trump is

talking about. so what ended up happening was they are now overcorrecting for those falsehoods. that they allowed rudy giuliani, they allowed cindy powell, to come on the air and say, just completely irrational, phony things -- and now, if you look -- just look at what happened at election night in 2022. fox was the slowest to call many races. initially, they would have been -- when roger ailes was running that network, they were the first. because they knew that that was what their audience wanted. now they are not so sure. they were very careful. they were the slowest to call the senate for the democrats, because it was not what their audience wanted. >> one more to you -- in terms of the deleterious

effect fox has, beyond the misinformation, and the disinformation, the active spreading of lies -- there is a tendency to champion autocrats. tucker carlson took his show to hungary and interviewed viktor orban. there are more subtle and perfectly legal ways in which they champion forces that are decidedly anti democratic. and my question to you is, as long as that sort of strain of politics is successful, and it keeps on being something that fox can legally do, what recourse is there for the rest of the country? >> it is a great question, alex. i think -- not the entire network and certainly not 24 hours a day, but certainly some of their evening hours, you do feel like some of those personalities would love to be state sponsored media in an autocratic regime. they admire some of the leaders in these other systems. so, i think what it is going to take is, in primaries, the republican presidential primary

being the big one in front of us, but over the next two election cycles, let's, say you see more republicans for congress, for governor, for secretary of state, for president, being able to win without embracing, basically, this anti-democracy, pro autocracy argument -- now, that is hard to do when the biggest megaphone continues to shout that from the rooftops. that, in fact, there is something to admire about autocracies -- there are our democracy is deeply flawed -- that things like replacement theory -- white power hour sometimes on that network. that is a big concern. but i have always believed that that's what it's going to take. i will feel, certainly, better about our democracy when you begin to see more republicans who, basically, are deeply conservative, don't agree with democrats on hardly any issues, but basically are more institutionalist wing. that may seem like a fairytale. but i do think you will see some republican primary voters and certainly in 2026 say, hey,

the other crowd is not doing too well in general elections. and it does not take that many voters to change that. but that is what it is going to take. because i don't think foxhunt changed their tune at all. >> the people will have to lead the network to the truth. new york times media reporter jeremy peters and former white house adviser under president obama, david plouffe. thank you guys both for your time tonight. we really appreciate it. we have much more ahead this hour. remember back in 2015? when evangelical leaders lay their hands on donald trump and prayed for him to be elected president? this time, it looks like some of them are now taking a hands off approach. yes, that is a pun. as the right-wing celebrated's decades long campaign to take away a fundamental right, the left is now playing a brand-new legal strategy to fight back. that's next. trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame.

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advocates held their first march for life since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade in june. and this year's march also marks the 50th anniversary of roe v. wade, creating a sort of bookend for the now defunct landmark ruling. leaders of the annual march have framed this moment as a time to reflect upon the dobbs decision as a critical milestone, and the time to look forward to the next steps. and participants were adamant about one message in particular. we are not done.

after fighting for half a century to dismantle the protections roe v. wade provided, anti choice activists successfully won a supreme court ruling over a woman's right to choose. they're now saying that they want to do more to restrict access to reproductive health care. already, since the dobbs decision, about 20 states have passed total bans or pre viability bans on abortion. -- are currently blocking those laws in several states -- though, even though there is no ban in force, there's still no access to abortion, because no clinics are operating. if you think we are living in a process roe v. wade balkanized landscape, you might be right. but what will it mean for american life if those figures deepen? antiabortion advocates would like to see a federal ban, like the one senator lindsey graham introduced, in september. in the context of a post-roe america and an uncertain national landscape, pro-choice groups are finding new ways to try to reverse some of the damage done by the dobbs decision. this, week a group of religious

leaders filed a religious freedom lawsuit opposing missouri's abortion ban. the groups claim that lawmakers who invoked their own religious beliefs while drafting the bill that they violated religious freedom provisions in the state constitution. for 50 years, the antiabortion movement has been finding creative ways to stifle access to the medical procedure. and now the other side is fighting back with its own very novel strategy. joining us now is nancy northrop, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. nancy, thanks for being here. >> absolutely. >> it's a hard day to think about roe v. wade. i think it's always a hard day. but especially in the context of the last year. the missouri lawsuit is different. and people seem to be very excited about the possibility of this, in terms of applying some right back for the women who have lost an essential freedom. how do you see the lawsuit? >> before we talk about the missouri lawsuit, let's just start -- because we are at this

precipice of the roe anniversary, that this is the first time in 50 years, where women do not have the right to make decisions in 12 states where abortion is totally banned under threat of criminal prosecution. and so, i am sitting here at this roe v. wade anniversary thinking that some things are quite chilling, which we have to pay attention to, but some things that are, in fact, heartening. and i think the lawsuit filed in missouri is one of those things. we are seeing states find protections for reproductive rights that did not exist before. so i think it's an interesting lawsuit. they are suing under the state constitution, which is what we have been doing in a lot of places across the country. and they are saying that missouri, basically, has established religion, and that the state constitution's bar against establishing religion means that their abortion ban must fall. >> it's religious leaders saying, you are -- >> that's right. >> you are bringing religion to the state where none should exist, basically arguing separation of church and state. >> that's right. >> what about the national band? when lindsey graham first proposed it, it was met with --

the room was not that filled with applause, shall we say. other republicans thought that it was best decided at the state level, including senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. do you think there is a chance that republicans actually move forward with this in congress? >> oh, i would not underestimate anything that might happen with respect to a national ban. the thing that is chilling, that is on my mind, is the fact that this is not the end. they have made it clear that it is not -- a nationwide ban is what they are going for -- one of the ways, yes, inducing in congress, they don't have the votes here right now. the president would veto anything. but they are trying to block access to medical abortion across the country. so, a lawsuit was filed in texas, which seeks to reverse the decision that the fda made in 2000, approving medication abortion -- that's the abortion pills -- and they want to try to ban that nationwide, which would mean in california, in new york. and medication abortion is the way that more than half the

women get their abortions in america today. >> i was going to ask. that seems to be the procedure that many women, especially in states where there is no access to reproductive choice, that is how they are exerting their own bodily autonomy. do you have a sense of the increase in medication abortions in a post-dobbs landscape? >> i think we don't have all the numbers. yeah it was already more than half before the dobbs decision. and in states where there is not access to abortion -- and people without the means to get out of the state have to take care of themselves and the state -- i think we have to get them the data on what is happening. but the attempts to try to block medication abortion nationwide should be attended to. and that lawsuit is going on right now the state of texas. >> i just wonder, but nothing passed the house republican caucus but the fact that they started off the congress with abortion measures that were not federal bans, they were inventions for up that don't exist, but they had the word abortion in them. it seemed like they're trying to placate the hard liners and

the pro-life movement. is there anything that could be done short of a cold bucket of water at the polls that you think could dissuade republicans in the house i'm trying to move forward on a federal ban? >> i think we are beginning to see how much the fact that the voters have been so clear. we've always known that the vast majority of american support the right to access care, and we have saw polls again and again stops overturned, in kansas, in kentucky, in michigan, all throughout the country, so i think that is going to have some mitigating effect, but the reality is, we need to get the rights back, and that's why we're working so hard on the strategies against a constitution to recognize the right to reproductive autonomy. we have that now in michigan, california, vermont. that language did not exist before. reproductive autonomy and freedom is now the language in the state constitutions and

through the courts. south carolina, supreme court, just recently recognized the right to abortion in south carolina under its constitution and its right to privacy. >> so, two steps backwards and some certain number of steps forward in a sense because some of these rights have been enshrined. they are not zombie laws in the late 1800s or 1930s. >> absolutely, i think at the end of the day, they will the day that there are first roe v. wade because the rights will be stronger. >> president and ceo at the center of reproductive rights, thanks for joining tonight, thank you. we have a lot more for you this evening. president biden at the halfway point against the presidential return today, and there is cake at the white house, but what was the message written in the icing? plus, the guy that wants to replace president biden in the oval office is facing some defections in the party he once controlled. is there such thing as a post trump republican party? we'll have more on the coming up next.

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for president, he looked at things. you first look at this the current situation push for new leadership? the second question is, and i had that person that can be the new leader that, yes, we need to go in that direction? and can i be that leader? yes, i think i can be that leader. >> that was former trump even ambassador nikki haley kind of sort of maybe saying that she will run for president which kind of sort of matters because

nikki haley effectively challenging her former boss, who is the only announced republican candidate in 2024, that is evidence that donald trump's hold over the gop will finally be starting to slip, maybe. today, but the new york times and washington post are out what new stories about trump's growing rift with the evangelical movement that one supported him. that while an influential texas pastor told the washington post this week, the most conservative evangelicals i know are in favor of ron desantis for president. and inside the republican party itself, a war has broken out between the current trump backed leadership and conservatives looking for a new direction. rnc chair rona mcdaniel who has trump's backing, is facing an aggressive challenge from his job of a former trump lawyer who has the backing of die hard conservatives, including tucker carlson and matt gaetz. it appears that the coalition trump cultivated and road to power no longer seems as

tethered to him as the 2024 campaign season gets underway. joining us not to talk about all this is tim miller, a msnbc political analyst. tim, i'm so happy to see you and hear all the answers yet to give me about this most pressing question. it is an age old question, but it has new urgency. does donald trump still commit fear within the republican party? >> hey, alex, it's so good to be with you. to start, happy friday. yeah, he brings a little bit of fear. it's mostly fear bottom up from trump voters, so i think as you see these changes, as you see a bit of fracturing, -- what you're not seeing from any of these people is a repudiation of trump. it's more of a commentary about, oh we love mr. trump, we love mr. trump's voters, we might need to move on to a new direction to try to win. that's a meaningful difference

from where the party was six months ago, but it's not a move from the maga movement that trump started. it's not a move away from trump voters, if anything, it's doubling down on reaching those people. the rnc chair race has been taken place on steve bannon's podcast, which was the leading podcast of the insurrection stop to steal movement. ron mcdaniel was honored today. that's where they're arguing. those are the people that listened to the, who they are speaking to. none of that is a repudiation of trump or sense of people want to move from away from him in any meaningful way. he is just not the standard bearer. >> i think there's a big distinction to be drawn between trumpism and malcolm-ism, which is to be in full flower, and trump himself, who seems potentially a little bit bruised since his first entrance onto the national stage, or at least ripe for minimization, shall we say. it seems to me that the

potential leading contenders for the nomination, and i say that with a big asterisk because i still think donald trump is the front runner, have found pieces of trump's message that they want to co-opt, right? like mike pence is going for religion which, granted, was not something that trump necessarily something trum had bona fides in, the evangelical base was with him at the end in 2016. pence is going for that. ron desantis is going for the culture warrior stuff, whether that's anti vax or see artist of, all the things on lgbtq trans community marginalization. nikki haley is trying to bring us back to america as a global power, this foreign policy piece that trump largely abdicated on, but was a core part of the america first message in its first iteration. do you think that there is one part of the puzzle where trump is weakness, where he is most vulnerable to an outsider to come and take the mantle away from him? >> yeah, i think he is the most vulnerable into areas.

one is just success efficacy, in particular on things like immigration. i think it would be very easy for someone like ron desantis to say, hey, look at all the things you did in florida. the viewers might be grossed out by many of those policies, the stop work act, don't be so gay, but i implemented that, i got it done. you said you build a wall, there's no wall. mexico did not pay, so i think that there is an efficacy of argument in the area of immigration where trumpism is vulnerable. -- covid -- it's an open question whether in 2023, that will still be an animating issue, but let me tell you, i went down to the turning point conference the covered that before christmas, and every speaker was talking about attacking the democrats on covid, talking about prosecuting fauci. i think trump both on speeding up the vaccine and going along

with some of the lockdowns and some of the covid mitigation efforts, i think this might seem like we're in the upside down, but that is where he is most vulnerable, is that he can get positioned as, you went in with the medical establishment with the medical elites, but the raw desantis example, it's not that direction to listen to the people and the maga voter. >> from the man who is advocating -- he is not to mention for the gop. trump's rift with the evangelical seems to be born over is suggesting, and i don't think this is not incorrect, that abortion is not a great issue for the republican candidates in the 2022 midterms. evangelicals did not like hearing that. they would like to press for a national ban. they are very pro life in an absolutist sense of the word. at the end of the day, evangelicals don't like trump, but they -- is there any chance that the something differently than they did in 2016. he was not their chosen

candidate, but they eventually circled up and got on board. do you think something different happens in 2024 if trump is close to being the nominee? >> i want to wait until we hear a little more from actual voters. the evangelical elites, with the exception of jerry falwell jr., were against trump, great? but you are sort of culturally evangelical person, maybe not a multiple times weekly churchgoer, but someone who identifies as evangelical. they were trump's core base. it was the most religious, topmost religious of oters. that breakdown might happen again this time, where the elites are signaling that we need to trust more and we made this deal with the devil, got our supreme court seat and now it's time to move on. but where the rank and file as to what a ban. i think that remains to be seen.

>> tim miller, always has the answers. writer for the bulwark and msnbc political analyst. buddy, it's great to see. thanks for your time tonight. >> you as well, alex. >> coming up, president biden's second anniversary in office. a lot of things have happened since january 20th, 2021. the new york times chief white house correspondent peter baker joins us next. a bend with a bump in your erection might be painful, embarassing, difficult to talk about,

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was sworn in as president. >> [applause] >> and with your help -- with your help, we have gotten a lot done. >> that was president biden this afternoon commemorating the two year anniversary of his inauguration and touting his administration's accomplishments. like the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years and -- job growth. the first two months of his presidency, while covid raged across the country, biden signed into law the 1. 9 trillion dollar american rescue plan. this summer, the administration passed the inflation reduction act, which is president biden's massive and signature bill that invested hundreds of billions of dollars in climate change and health care and fighting inflation and set a corporate minimum tax rate. biden signed into law the first gun reform, the first kind of gun reform legislation we have seen in decades. he also signed into law the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the respect for marriage act. and, of course, president biden also nominated the first black woman to the supreme court, justice ketanji brown jackson. but as biden marks two year anniversary today, there were storm clouds, storm clouds in the form of the classified documents investigation.

today, the new york times published a new report on the 60 days between the first discovery of the documents and when the public learned the news. here it is. the handling of the documents case has eroded his capacity to claim the high road against mr. trump, while also raising questions that his team's ability to navigate republican attacks from capitol hill. joining us now is peter baker, chief white house correspondent to the new york times and one of the reporters bylined on his very these. peter, thanks for joining me tonight. tell me a little bit about how complicating the documents scandal has been in terms of how the white house sees its agenda writ large. because they have accomplished so very much. two years of landmark legislation -- big achievements on a number of fronts -- is this but a passing storm, or do they really seriously think that this is shaping public opinion? >> well, at the white house they would tell you, this is not that big a deal. it's politically outside the people outside the beltway are

not gonna pay much attention to this obsession -- us in the media -- the chattering class -- that is their thinking at the moment. but what it does, i think, is actually sort of let trump off the mat to the extent they had an opportunity to criticize president trump over his handling of the documents that were found at mar-a-lago, even though the cases are remarkably different in terms of some of the details, they have sort of lost that high ground -- that is not going to be something that you would hear democrats bring up against trump, except to say that there is a distinction between what trump did and what binded, which is not exactly an easy argument to make, even if the facts may be, again, significantly different. so, they have lost that opportunity they have. i think that's an important point for them. but in terms of whether they face any actual threat from the special counsel, nobody wants a special counsel if you are a president.

you never know if they lead, if it's distracting, it can take people out of their comfort zone, -- white house. there's no indication that they necessarily will lead to's anything seriously serious legally -- so far -- come out -- gave the back to the archives right away. there's no indication that, unlike trump, that they tried to resist. they did not defy a subpoena the way trump seems to have done. and so, legally, they might not be in that big jeopardy. by the sound of a thing, obviously, when you have special counsel. >> peter, a lot of people have said that the biden white house attitude towards republicans has been remarkably pugnacious, especially given the fact that this was a president who was going to unite the presidency. he has basically turned a page on that, starting last year when he talked in advance of the midterms about maga republicans and allied them with sort of fascistic actors through history. do you think the newly pugnacious white house is evidence of an emboldened white house? do you think it is a political strategy? what do you make of their stance towards kevin mccarthy? the debacle of the speaker's election?

their really firm stance on debt ceiling negotiations? this just feels like a white house that is not pulling any punches, as it were. >> it's not pulling any punches but i think it's because it sees a lot of punches coming its way, right? they have a new republican house that has made clear that the price of admission for speaker mccarthy to get into that office was to be as oppositional as possible to the biden white house, even on things like the debt ceiling and spending, and those that are required to keep the government open. -- the deal -- the republican majority is not interested in finding common ground. and in that sense, the white house is trying to make a distinction between mccarthy, on the one side, and mcconnell, on the other. in the senate, there is mcconnell -- they're obviously not exactly a friend of this white house. but from time to time, he's willing to strike bipartisan deal where he sees an advantage or a -- and you saw president biden go down to kentucky, standing side by side with mitch mcconnell a

week or so ago to dedicate the opening -- of a new bridge -- down there to emphasize what bipartisanship can get done in terms of the infrastructure bill that passed in 2021. so, i think you are going to see them play two different tragedies here, and get oppositional against the republicans of the house, and looking for deals with republicans in the senate and see if they can make the republicans their own worst enemy. >> it's an interesting role for mitch mcconnell, to be live trolling his republican counterpart in the house as he is fighting for his life in his speakers election. it's just a shocking set of visuals. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, it's always great to see you, peter. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you very much. >> we will be right back.

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correction. earlier in the show, we mentioned fox news bruce --

pushing i jackson clark in as a covid care. unlike fox news, we wanted to quickly correct the record about the proper use of ig oxide. it is also treating rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. it is not a covid cure, and -- which fox news also push for the sick with covid. it is a medication mostly used on sick horses. apologies to all, especially the horses. that does it for us tonight, i'll see you here on tuesday, now it is time for the last word with ali velshi, in for lawrence. >> as he said, and i thought to myself, is that not the horse medicine? have i've been getting it wrong? it's all in the category of stuff that was not supposed to be talked about during covid. >> it's all stuff that has nothing to do with the curing you if you have covid. it's for other things, and it's in that box in my mind. i do not want any horses to be given the wrong medication. as you know, we take our health care very cc. >> as we should.